Three Speech’s Steve Boxer interviews Ray Maguire, Sony Computer Entertainment’s UK managing director, about the PS3 price cuts. Over to Steve (and Ray).
So, as of next Wednesday, the PlayStation 3’s life will begin in earnest, at least in the UK, as it will finally be possible to buy one for less than £425 - £299, in fact, if you buy a 40Gb one with the card slots, two of the USB ports and, controversially, PS2 backwards-compatibility removed; or £349 if you fancy the bells-and-whistles 60Gb version with two games. We sought out Sony Computer Entertainment’s UK managing director Ray Maguire to talk us through this move and describe the thinking behind.
Before the outcries begin, let us say a few things. Of course, it’s painful if you bought a PS3 for £425 and can walk into a shop and see the same machine on sale for £349 – but all early adopters, of every single console ever released, had to pay a premium. And Maguire’s explanation that Sony now feels there are enough PS3 titles on sale – and enough seductive blockbusters in the pipeline for next year – to justify a version which won’t play PS2 games (oddly, PlayStation One compatibility still holds) is fair enough. And the move is about generating a bigger installed base for the PS3, which has a knock-on effect for all of us, as Maguire points out – the more PS3s there are out there, the more juicy PS3 exclusives we’ll get. Anyway, here’s the full transcript of our interview with Maguire.
Q: So the PS3 as of Wednesday will come in two skus: a 40GB entry-level one at £299 and a 60Gb Value Pack at £349?
Ray Maguire: I’ll take you through it. We’ve been listening to our consumers over the last few months, to find out what they feel about PlayStation 3 and some of the barriers to getting into the next level of gaming. Quite clearly, although there has been a massive uptake in PlayStation 3, there is a bigger swell of opinion underneath which says: “I really want to get into PlayStation 3 but it’s just too expensive.” With that in mind, we went back and had a look at how we could get that entry-level price down.
What we’ve done is create a brand new sku, which has a 40Gb hard disk, and we’ve taken out some of the components from the 60GB sku. The first things we took out were the Memory Stick slots. And we reduced the USB ports from four down to two. We’ve taken out backwards-compatibility as well. The reasons for doing these things are thus: with the memory slots, there are many peripherals on the marketplace now which give you all that functionality at a reasonable price. As far as USB is concerned, USB hubs are now widely available and also extremely cheap. So people who want that functionality can upgrade if they choose.
Regarding the backwards-compatibility issue, we felt it was reasonably important at launch, when there weren’t that many titles on sale, that backwards-compatibility was included to some degree in the PS3. There is a cost associated with that for us though. We feel now, going into Christmas, with about 65 titles, there is sufficient choice that instead of looking at backwards-compatibility, we can use that money better to get the entry-level cost of gaming down. What we have now is a 40Gb PS3 with the features I’ve just been through at £299.
Of course, not everyone wants to have different devices underneath their TV. So the other offer we’ve got is that the Starter Pack that we’ve got at the moment, which has an extra controller and two games, is being replaced by the 60Gb PS3, with just one controller and two games, for £349.
Q: Are all the original components on that 60Gb version?
RM: Yes: that’s with the fours USB ports, the memory card slots and backwards-compatibility.
Q: Is the 40Gb PS3 backwards-compatible with PlayStation One games?
RM: Yes. When we launched, we said we would focus on forward production rather than backwards-compatibility, but there was more of a need for backwards-compatibility six months ago. So, from here on in, there are no plans for backwards-compatibility in PlayStation products.
Q: Was this price-cut eased by the recent Sony Japan IPO?
RM: I can’t really comment on that, because I don’t know about the internal workings of what they did with that finance.
Q: So it’s purely a UK initiative?
RM: This is a PAL territories initiative, so it’s European, although I have to say our 60Gb offering is UK-only.
Q: Obviously that puts you in much better shape for the Christmas market. Have you revised your targets regarding how many PS3s you want to sell?
RM: Clearly there will be an uplift in sales as more people gain entry to the PlayStation 3. There’s no uplift in our forecast, as we forecast this many months ago, and it’s been three months in production, so you can see how far ahead we have to plan to bring these things to market. But the most exciting thing here is that people now have a choice of how to get into the marketplace: I think £299 is a great price-point for the world’s most powerful high-def gaming machine and Blu-ray movie player.
Q: Recently, the PS3 and Xbox 360 have been pretty neck and neck, until Halo 3 came out, and the Xbox 360 had a sales spike. Are you looking to outsell the Xbox 360 for the rest of the year?
RM: Obviously, there was a big price differential between us and our competition, and that has now been eroded. With that, and looking at price elasticity, one would expect us to start outperforming them, yes.
Q: What are the heaviest-hitting first-party titles you’re lining up for Christmas?
RM: For me, the most exciting are Ratchet & Clank and Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune. One because these products are starting to become more cinematic and story-based. And then as far as Ratchet is concerned, I think the environments are just absolutely glorious, and start to show what you can do when you tap some of the Cell chip’s power. Because we only have to focus on the PS3, I think we can be a little bit more pure in how we produce our games. I think you’ll see another example of that in Killzone next year and in GT5. I think that transition starts now. We had a great start with MotorStorm and Resistance: Fall of Man, but then it seemed that we went back a bit, as we were looking at people who had already developed on other platforms. Now, I think we start to stand up again, with some of our first-party games and some of the third-parties who are starting to make the change to focusing on PlayStation 3. Giving an installed base over Christmas will help that investment – will help those people commit the amount of money that’s required for PlayStation 3 development.
Q: And LittleBigPlanet and Home must be vitally important for you next year?
RM: Yes. We’re investing a huge amount of money here to get this entry-level price-point. And I think it’s worth it, because loads of people will enjoy what is available already. But PlayStation 3 is such a complex machine with so many features that you only start to unravel them after you’ve been playing on it for some time. I think once people have got through Christmas and the early months of next year, they’ll be ready for some of the new games and features that will start to bring it even more to life.
Q: Sony has taken flak on the internet for the PS3’s price – even from people who were committed to the PlayStation brand. Do you think this price-drop will help bring them back into the fold?
RM: Yes I do. But price is a big issue for everyone. You only commit to something once you decide it’s worth it. For the early adopters, they are the ones who understand every part of our product and what it can do. For the people who are one step behind on their understanding of what PlayStation 3 can do, price is a big factor. But we’ve listened to that, we’ve reacted to it, and we’ve produced a product which addresses all those needs.
Q: And the two new PlayStation 3s will be in the shops next Wednesday (10 October)?
RM: Yes.
Q: Will it be obvious in the shops that there are two different PS3s on sales?
RM: Yes. They come in different boxes, and they’ll be clearly differentiated.
Q: Will people be able to choose which two games they get with the 60Gb version?
RM: Where retailers can, that will be possible. They have a list of games from which consumers can pick and mix. But some retailers don’t have the ability to do that, so they will formulate their products and deal with two defined games. The retailers are thrilled, because this year had an amazing start. But this is our first Christmas with PlayStation 3, and it’s exciting to be going into Christmas with a competitive and aggressive price-point. Already, the year was shaping up to be the biggest ever year for gaming, and I think with this news, it will definitely now be the biggest year in gaming history.
Q: Nintendo has said that there may be shortages of Wiis at retail this Christmas. But you’re not anticipating any shortages of PS3 inventory are you?
RM: We’ve always had the right amount of stock – we came into criticism for having the right amount of stock at launch, bizarrely enough. But again, this is about doing the right thing for the consumers.
Its so painfully obvious that this is the biggest mistake sony could do in getting rid of the PS2 backwarads compatibility. Mainly because of the huge populaity still in the PS2 itself that when new adaptors choose to go next gen and stick with sony and buy a PS3 their back cataloge of PS2 titles will be pointless.
Comment by Wraxend — Oct 8, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
What with the recent cuts in prices for the PS3 and the new lower specced version, it actually gives me confidence in Playstation as a brand yet again.
After the renounding success with the PSP slim (not to mention the japanese release with crisis core), the playstation brand has once again been “refreshed” in the mind of consumers - media spotlights / ad campaigns / internet banners all of these are getting the message across that the Playstation as a brand - is far from dead.
Once more I feel that the console has something to give that none other can duplicate - It’s a nice feeling to be able to say:
“I have a playstation”
Comment by JohnSketch — Oct 8, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
So does this mean no more back compat updates and I never get to play Jak 1?
Comment by Alex Batterbee — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
I see more a lot of implying that its the case, but it would be nice to have a clear statement saying that as current plans are there will ‘never’ again be available a PS3 with card slots and BC, so once the current 60GB systems are gone, those features can only be found through buying a used system.
I realize Sony might not be ready to announce details, but it would be nice to hear that a ‘high-end’ version is expected to be available also in the future even if the exact specs and pricing is not yet determined.
Comment by Christian — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
Just to have it mentioned. Even though I still have some unanswered questions as seen in #3 I think Sony is doing the right move by releasing this 40GB version at this pricepoint. The effort going into building synergy effects between Blu-Ray, the PS3 and PSP will only accelerate with this move and as a PS3 owner I am happy to see Sony putting this much effort into popularizing the platform.
Comment by Christian — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
really good interview - and thx to three speech for bringing it to us
sony really should try this ‘talking to us’ concept a bit more often
Comment by belfast steps — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
I havent played or picked up a PS2 game since the launch of the PS3, i want to play the latest games and i think that this is a good move by Sony, they have got the price right and the games will sell this.
Three people in my office are getting one because of this price drop, the only thing holding them back before was price, so i think this is going to work and with R&C and Uncharted been exclusive to PS3 people will buy the system just to play these games, it happened with PS1 and PS2 and it will happen again, Sony know what they are doing…..we own the console so lets enjoy the games and let other people worry about the sku’s we have the 60gb version with all the stuff on so lets be happy.
Comment by Nathaniel — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
£299 is a great price and I know of one UK retailer that is offering the 40GB unit for £279 with free P&P. Even thinking of the unit as purely a device to play Blu-ray movies, that’s a great price. People are jumping up and down about the backwards compatability, and if that’s something that concerns you, buy the 60GB version, simple! To be honest, the 60GB is actually much better value than the 40GB, based on the extras you get for the £50 hike. It would be a reasonable question I suppose to ask how long the 60GB unit in its current form will stick around.
Comment by Lee Richards — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
The underlying message that everyone seems to be missing here is that, once they get rid of the BC chips from PS3s, there is little to no incentive to continue work on the software emulation software at ALL!!. So make sure your games are on the compatibility list now, before you get rid of your PS2.
What makes even less sense is keeping PS1 compatibility? I have no PS1 games only about 20 PS2 games, so PS2 compatibility is essentially for people who have a large collection of PS2 games, but would like to play them scaled up appropriately to HD. This will not be possible now that BC for PS2 games has been dropped!
Comment by Savage — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:47 pm
Personally not too upset about lack of BC (as my kid now has my PS2, I can camp in her room now and then), but I do think it’s a mistake to take it out. I would not be surprised if Sony manage to master total software BC at a later date, allowing them to reintroduce it.
On the price point - noone can argue this is fantastic news for all PS3 owners, who needs Halo now eh?
Sony - do not mess up xmas.. help those developers get the gear out nice and early..
Comment by MrJimmy — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
Oh and as I said in the other thread, you should have introduced the 40GB model as a limited edition introductory offer. Thus Keeping the 60GB the way it is for the next year and then releasing a cheaper 160GB model next November, while the 60GB model drops in price.
Comment by Savage — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
God dam it threespeech, WHERE IS THE STATMENT ABOUT WHY THE EU STORE SUCK?
You were talking with the freaking marketing manager and didnt think to ask him? God dam it I am so pissed right now.
Also are they going to improve PS2 BC anymore, because i only need one more game to work then I can sell my PS2. It is Final Fantasy 8 SLES-02080
Comment by carl(not cut and paste carl) crawford — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
You should never remove a current feature from a product that cannot be added as an option by the consumer at a later date. So the USB ports, smaller HD and memory card reader is no problem but to remove the option of BC altogether with no way to reinstate it is yet another poor judgement call from Sony. Even though the Xbox 360 has always been more expensive than a PS3 when feature matched at least you could add each bit as you needed or could afford it. Also, most people will presume that a PlayStation can play PlayStation games, whether PS1 or PS2. Is a PlayStation that doesn’t play PS2 games really a PlayStation? Of course, Sony don’t make as much cash off PS2 Platinum games as they do off PS3 games. Sony is now run by accountants and the lack of vision is something that may just bring down the company.
Comment by Mister Slimm — Oct 8, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
The xbox 360 is not that good at BC but that didint stop it from doing so well. If people want to play ps2 games they should keep hold of there ps2 its still a good sturdy reliable machine and can be used as a dvd player aswell ( it can also upscale your games) . I think the only thing that is going stop sony doing well is lack of good games. If sony can adress that issue and get some AAA titles in the shops before xmas they can rule the roost
Comment by Akhtar — Oct 8, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
What I don’t understand is that with the TV adapter coming next year, we’re gonna need all the hard drive space we can get…. and if the 40Gb model is the only one available, that’s gonna suck……
Will upgrading our HDD invalidate our warranty?
Comment by Rob — Oct 8, 2007 @ 4:32 pm
You people act as if BC has completely vanished. They took it out of one model to make the PS3 affordable to the cheapskates out there. If you don’t want to pay the full price for a PS3 then you obviously cannot expect to get a PS3 with all of the bells and whistles.
As the old saying goes, You get what you pay for. If you want a fully functional PS3 with BC, buy the 60/80GB model. If you want a cheap PS3 buy the 40GB.
Really it is that simple. Quit acting like Sony has completely done away BC because they haven’t.
Comment by parker — Oct 8, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
a smart Starter Pack would had included a bluray GAME and a MOVIE instead of two games. this would be competitive against the old xbox360.
this interview don’t tell us why the 40GB specs sheet includes NTSC SD output (480i/480p) instead of PAL (575i/575p).
——————————————-
“we avoid censoring content here…”
Comment by Semi-Unofficial Account — Oct 8, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
This site is for PAL users NOT Americans. SONY EU have STOPPED production of the 60 Gb models and are only offering the 40Gb model. So someone CAN NOT buy a PAL PS3 that is BC once the current stock is gone. American there is NO 80 GB model in EUROPE, AUSTRALIA or NEW ZEALAND.
Comment by carl(not cut and paste carl) crawford — Oct 8, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
At first I was surprised and disappointed at Sony’s decision to leave Europe with a cut down PS3 after the 60GB sells out. But as a relatively active PS3 user I had a think about what was being removed and if, in reality, it would affect my use:
40GB HDD - I’ve nearly filled my PS3 HDD since launch, I have about 1.3GB left, so I would notice this. That being said, I should really delete the demos I’ve stopped playing, and don’t necessarily need my entire MP3 collection on the HDD now media sharing is available, likewise with the photos/movies I have on there. Plus this is an easy thing to upgrade.
No media readers - I’ve used this twice since I bought my PS3 (and that’s probably just because it was there), in reality I transfer most of my data by USB stick and can also plug my camera directly to the PS3 via USB.
2 USB slots - I rarely use the USB slots apart from charging my SIXAXIS and transferring data. When I do I only use 1 of the 4 USB’s at once. This may change with the likes of the EYE coming out but currently I don’t necessarily need 4 ports.
No SACD playback - I don’t own a single SACD or have a Processor capable of decoding SACD over HDMI.
No B/C - I guess I must be a really stereo typical PS3 user (according to Sony at least) because I really valued PS2 B/C at launch because two must own games for me came out after the PS3’s launch - Tomb Raider Legend and God of War 2, I also played a bit of FFXII. Since then I’ve got more PS3 games, and haven’t used BC since, the same was true of the PS2’s BC. I very rarely play last gen games, and when I do I’m disappointed because they don’t live up to how I remember them after being wowed by next gen HD graphics. I think this is definitely more of a physiological effect on most people.
Matt Black Finish - Not sure what I feel about this, until I see the 40GB model in the flesh, I really like the shiny black on my current PS3 though.
I guess I’ll just have to hope my launch PS3 never breaks or needs replacing, that way it doesn’t really matter to me what the late comers end up with. I never needed to replace my PS1 or PS2, so I’ve no reason not to think that will be the case.
I’m not bitter about paying more, everyone who buys any technological consumer device should expect the price to come down in a relatively short time frame, anyone who doesn’t is just naïve. I had a good idea at launch there would be a price drop for Christmas, but I took the decision that I didn’t want to wait that long and miss out on the albeit limited first year of releases (I’ve not got a 360 so the ports didn’t bother me much), the games I’ve played/download so far and the use I’ve got out of it as a blu-ray player/media server have been worth the early purchase premium.
And as pointed out in the article, I’d much rather Sony cut the price for Christmas and ensure they get a stronger user leading to more development focus than end up with this generations Dreamcast!
Comment by Apnomis — Oct 8, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
Personally i think it’s great news and for most people BC won’t matter a stuff.
The only game i’ve played from my PS2 library since i bought my PS3 has been a bit of GT4 and GT5 is going to blow that away anyway.
I bought my PS3 on release day and dont feel at all bitter about the price going down now, or with the previous bundles released. I mean, i got it on release day, come on, what consoles don’t go down in price.
Now the PS3 is cheaper, there’s no excuse for you not to be blown to hell by me on Warhawk, go buy a PS3 now!
Comment by Spike57 — Oct 8, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
I just wish people would calm down about this issue, I think it is important as there are still some great PS2 games out there to be had like GoW2 and Tomb raider but I think it’s a feature that needs to stay until late next year. How many decent games will be out before xmas that arn’t lazy ports or multi-platform? I count about 5-8 and thats not much choice for gamers.
I dont expect much in the first year but Sony keep making mistakes with this product and are riding on the back of thier previous success of past playstations. Just when you think they’ve got it sorted then they go and annouce this, home and LBP delayed, no dualshock, it just keeps getting better!
Comment by bmaindj — Oct 8, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
In addition, just to throw another PS3 SKU into the mix, a PS3 by the SKU of CECHG06 is rumoured to have been discovered.
This Japanese only version is the polar opposite to our new 40GB SKU, whereas SCEE are stripping out bits of our PS3’s, the Japanese are adding a whole lot of new stuff in theirs! If true it will be the ultimate (or should that be Elite?) version of the PS3 and goes back to some of the crazily ambitious specs of E3 2005:
“The PS3 160gb will have a slightly upgraded Wi-Fi and Bluetooth receiver. Also the PS3 will be available in both Black and Silver, come with an unamed Blu-Ray movie, demos and trailers packed onto the HDD and a voucher for 2 PSN titles for the first number of customers,” said an anonymous source.
“At the moment the unit is only confirmed for release in Japan. A date has not been fully specified but is expected after November”.
Rumoured specs
* Code: CECHG06 (SPECIFICATION)
* Sony PlayStation 3
* 160GB 2.5 SATA 5400rpm HDD
* CELL Broadband Engine (65nm process) @ 3.2ghz
* PPU x1, SPE x8
* RSX GPU (65nm process) @ 550mhz
* Blu-ray Optical Disc Drive @ 2x
* Memory Card Reader- Memory Stick Duo, Compact Flash, Secure Digital
* 6x USB 2.0 ports
* 2x HDMI 1.3 ports
* 3x Gigabit ethernet ports
* DUALSHOCK 3 controller
As reported by http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=10020
Now if that is true that is one hell of a spec! If SCEE are discountinuing the 60GB, maybe it is because they expect to bring this deluxe model the the EU market sometime next year?
It would be quite easy for Sony to bring this spec to Europe at the original £425 price point (like SCEA did by reducing the 60GB and bringing out the 80GB at the old 60GB price).
I wonder if this spec would tempt any early adopters to upgrade in the same way 360 premium owners paid out for the Elite?
Comment by Apnomis — Oct 8, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
@16: Uhm, the fact that a game is multiplatform doesn’t make it less of a choice for gamers looking for a game. To be frank with the new 40GB pricing, if all games where multiplatform, then everyone should get the PS3. Why? Because you then also get a Blu-Ray player included in the price.
Comment by Christian — Oct 8, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
I am fully aware of the lack of trust surrounding Sony at the moment. I know the console was hugely expensive at launch & I know the games were underwelming to say the least. I agree that what made the Playstation Brand soo powerful over the last decade were its game lineup & even I had slowly begun to lose faith. To say Sony has had a rocky year is like saying that Bird Flu isnt has harmful as SARS.
But if u take a different perspective, one from a business stance….is Sony’s method to madness just that?
The price cut is a great move, squarely putting it against the 360 Elite..(ex. HD-DvD) & has come at no better time to try and tame the effects of Halo 3.
Removal of Backwards Compability may seem a rediculous move as the PS2 Library is in 1000’s but is this good business sense? I mean, Sony are well aware that over 110 million + households have the PS2 & while the PS3 can currently emulate almost all titles, that feature isnt playing to the consoles true strengths or Sony’s future ‘NEXT-GEN’ vision.
I believe Sony have removed BC, firstly to drop the consoles Production Costs (& allow somesort of Profit Margin) but more importantly to increase demand and attention to the more expensive 60GB model ( a console more likely to have larger Profit Margins due to a combination of lower component costs….as evident by recent component manufacture switches & effects of Economies of Scale).
I think Sony knows that by removing BC consumers will respond firstly by buying the more expensive 60GB until stocks deplete or will buy the 40GB and continue to use their existing PS2’s (with its massive 110 million owners).
It is even possible that first time consumers could buy the 40GB for £299 & additionally buy a PS2 (£99); thus boosting sales for SCE worldwide. I know it seems unlikely but to gain access to the largest & greatest game catalogue in the world, £400 isnt a huge price to pay!
Overall, maximum profit for any of the console manufactures isnt made from the console itself, but from the sales of software…..what better way to increase the PS3’s turnover & the slowly fading PS2’s?
So while the repeated battering from Sony may have in the past been a means to NO end, this announcement is exactly what the consumer wanted….be it in the unique ‘Sony’ recipe.
Comment by Ryan — Oct 8, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
I actually DO welcome the price-cut…
…but on the other hand kicking out BC and discontinuing the 60GB-version at the same time just feels plain wrong. Especially without an “elite”-substitute for hardcore-gamers / collector’s on the horizon !
Comment by codshin — Oct 8, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
@17: I think that 120GB spec looks bogus, I mean 3 Gigabyte ethernet ports? Not very useful
Comment by Christian — Oct 8, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
@17
I think those specs are bunk. What would you do with 2x HDMI? It was a feature touted back when the PS3 was first announced all that time ago, but was dropped due to a lack of demand (who has two screens next to each other anyway?), and that developers simply wouldn’t use the feature. Equally, the triple gigabit ports - something that was on the PS3 back when it had dual HDMI, but an ultimately useless feature. How exactly does an “upgraded” WiFi and Bluetooth chipset work - enabling the draft n standard? Highly unlikely on a piece of consumer hardware when everybody is still on b/g networks
Those specs simply sound like somebody took those original “specifications” and has tweaked them slightly to make a new rumour.
Comment by Cei — Oct 8, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
what about Drakes fortune being released on 20-11 in the US and 7-12 in the EU news.
where is singstar,
where is home,
where is vegas poker (weeks already on the US PSN)
where is the global store?
Comment by Darkie — Oct 8, 2007 @ 6:25 pm
A lot of people seem to give bad comment about PS2 BC.
If you care about PS2 BC so much on your PS3 do what I did.
Shell out another 50 pound and get the 60GB one, what’s so hard about that.
50 Pound for a up converting PS2 player, a controller and 2 games, I think it’s a very good deal.
I spend 425 pound on my PS3.
Comment by salemi — Oct 8, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
PWNAGE
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260169000573&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D260169000573%26fvi%3D1
Comment by Jorm — Oct 8, 2007 @ 7:43 pm
Back-compat is going to be missed about as much as George Bush will be. The new 40GB PS3 is a brilliant move by Sony.
Comment by Lord Mooch — Oct 8, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
Expect a spike followed by an outcry.
Thousands will buy the new cheaper model for the holidays. They will assume that it is backwards compatible. Parents will see two models, one thats cheaper, perhaps even the only one in stock, and take that one. When they get it home and junior can’t play PS2 games on it, there will be hell to pay.
Sony, you are doing what you have always done; you are creating artificial highpoints that are not, in fact based on true user-satisfaction. In the past, those falsely spun highpoints have looked good enough on paper to garner you the industry support you needed, and once that support came, your systems did in fact become dominant platforms with solid software and real highpoints followed.
But that isn’t going to work this time. The power of the online community to see through your falsified data, to locate your conflicting PR statements, and to follow the long-term negative repercussions of your artificial sales spiking moves has undermined and will continue to undermine your attempts to portray your value as greater than it is. Acting like you are a great platform until it comes true will no longer work.
Ask Microsoft. They can spin the red ring till they are blue in the face; the internet sees through it. By the same token, you can trick some poor sods into buying a gimped system by subtly removing a “core value”, but don’t believe for a second that the blogosphere is going to let you get away with it. The outcry will be huge.
Comment by warmwaterpenguin — Oct 8, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
As an early adoptor of the ps3 i cant elp but feel cheated.
I bought the 60gb ps3 @£425 plus 2 games @£40 each, totalling £505.
Now sony are releasing the exact same deal for £349. yes thats a whopping £156 cheaper than the deal i got a little over 6 months ago.
Sony only seems to care for the new customer and not those who already own a ps3.
To be honest i cant see why sony cant give those who bought a ps3 system early some sort of rebate perhaps in the form of psn credit.
Comment by Peter — Oct 8, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
Like the outcry was huge for the red ring penguin? That happened to thousands and thousands of people and absolutely nothing really happened, Microsoft eventually fixed it in their own time but most people who aren’t really paying attention to this kind of thing and it didn’t happen to had no idea about it at all.
Comment by Tom — Oct 8, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
I could kiind of half understand them removing backwards compatibilty if it was costing them money, but the backwards compatibility in the 60GB systems is all software based anyway, it does not require any extra production costs to manufacture additional chips or anything, so what exactly are Sony gaining by reoving backwards compatibilty except for the wrath of all of their fans who have a big collection of PS2 games that they want to play, upscaled, on their shiny, new, PS3?!
If it were not for the lack of backwards compatibility I would say that the new 40GB model is a pretty good deal, but as it is, I do not imagine there will be many people who will be buying the 40GB SKU instead of the 60GB one (at least until they phase it out, at which point I am hoping they will bring out a new SKU with a much bigger HDD, that would make the most sense to me).
Comment by Mace — Oct 8, 2007 @ 10:08 pm
@Tom
Yes, like the red ring. Which ultimately reached critical mass and cost Microsoft over a billion dollars to deal with and is still discouraging adopters.
The power of communication the internet provides means that a few spun press releases and some handy information suppression can not save you from legitimately dealing with a problem like they used to.
There will be an outcry, there will be returned systems, and there will be unhappy customers. Sony will not mention any of this and will simply point to the sales spike that preceded it all before consumers realize they’ve been duped.
But that sort of fabricated half-news just plain doesn’t sell anymore. There is too much communication on the internet for those unhappy customers to be unheard by the rest of the market.
Comment by warmwaterpenguin — Oct 8, 2007 @ 10:17 pm
Why didn’t you ask him some hard hitting questions like the ones you read from us on here Threespeech?
Instead you asked him loaded questions obviously leading him into the propaganda answers.
As a pre-requisite to the interview did he have to vet the questions you could ask?
You completely failed to grill this dickhead on the hard hitting matters most of us wanted answers to.
Thanks you once again for sod all.
PS He is a total liar by the way.
Comment by Ton Capone — Oct 8, 2007 @ 11:25 pm
Playstation 3 £425.00
RFOM & Motorstorm £65.00
1 extra controller and Remote £60.00
Getting screwed over by Sony every Thursday and delays on all your favorite stuff…. Priceless….
Comment by anthonyp — Oct 8, 2007 @ 11:43 pm
@ 27
Amen Brother.
Comment by anthonyp — Oct 8, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
“Regarding the backwards-compatibility issue, we felt it was reasonably important at launch, when there weren’t that many titles on sale, that backwards-compatibility was included to some degree in the PS3. There is a cost associated with that for us though. We feel now, going into Christmas, with about 65 titles, there is sufficient choice that instead of looking at backwards-compatibility, we can use that money better to get the entry-level cost of gaming down. What we have now is a 40Gb PS3 with the features I’ve just been through at £299.”
65 titles… is that using nintendos spin on the wii.. which includes the dross on virtual console. this bloke is taking the !@£!£!….
Oh of course I will just bin all my ps2 games.. I don’t want them scaled to HD.. BECAUSE I’VE GOT PIXEL JUNK and RAMPART in SD to PLAY!!!!! YAY rejoice… thank you sony
I’m on the verge of lobbing my ps3 out the window. wipeout HAD better be something special.. or it’s going on ebay for buy it now £200
Comment by The Amazing Kazoo — Oct 9, 2007 @ 12:01 am
@30: uhm, if you already got a PS3 then it will have backwards compatability, its its not going to go away. So you can keep your PS2 games. Rejoice!
Comment by Christian — Oct 9, 2007 @ 12:08 am
@31 you miss my point.. yes I have one that can play ps2 games.. great. but I was making out that 65 games thing is just plain $£!@$!@ and if I were to get a new 40gb model. and had just upgraded from a ps2 I would be seriously pissed off that I would have to re hook up my ps2 to play them when my all singing next gen ps3 should play them enhanced to hd. but won’t as it’s been gimped beyond belief. so I pity the new buyers esp. when you look at the release list for the ps3. up to xmas.. it’s beyond awful. next year looks alot better.. BUT THATS NEXT YEAR!
Comment by The Amazing Kazoo — Oct 9, 2007 @ 12:42 am
Sony when will you learn??
Comment by Peter — Oct 9, 2007 @ 3:21 am
“We also have to remember that consumers don’t search around the world for different configurations.” That’s a blast. Keep in mind he is the managing director of SCEE. Isn’t there a intern at SCEE that can explain him the concept of the Internet, Google, Blogs, … I guess it doesn’t help anyway. By now I would almost miss things like these from Sony.
Comment by Mutsch — Oct 9, 2007 @ 8:15 am
I bought the PS2 a year or so after it’s release - I bought it because 1) it dropped in price and 2) because it was backward compatible with PS1 games. I bought the PS3 on the launch day because 1) my PS2 died and 2) Backward compatibility is a “core value”. I even remember the jibes at Microsoft for their appaling attempt at BC with the 360. Of course, with the 40Gb model, Sonys BC looks worse than MSs now.
I play a LOT of PS2 games on my PS3 because I enjoy playing the games - even at Christmas there will not be PS3 alternatives to some of my games. I have a reasonable number of PS1 and PS2 games that I continue to play (or would if the BC was better) and will for the forseeable future.
I do not have room for a PS3 and a PS2 around my TV - so I want just the one console, that plays all my old games as well.
I can also see that other people upgrading from a PS2 would want the same thing, it provides a much cheaper upgrade path.
I guess the BC removal might look good on paper, but just what effect will it have with good will, loyalty and future purchases?
Comment by Ian — Oct 9, 2007 @ 8:26 am
Its crappy to exclude the BC…I’m happy I bought a PS3 on launch day so that I do get the BC with the PS2…
It bothers me that the BC will be scrapped, does that mean no development will be put into BC, I was really hoping it would expand more. A major mistake Sony!
Comment by alex — Oct 9, 2007 @ 8:51 am
Some really odd points being made here. Most the people that are moaning about the lack of B/C already seem to own a PS3 - so what’s the problem for you!!?? Like many, I have barely touched B/C since I bought the PS3. And going back to a previous point about taking the PS3 back to the kid that finds he can’t play his PS2 games - that’s just stupid. A) He must have a PS2 already so he can still use it - I can’t imagine any place where you could trade in your PS2 plus cash for a PS3. B) Junior as you called him, will not be interested in playing PS2 games on his PS3 if he was given one. He’ll only be interested in PS3 games!
This move is very good by Sony - the people that have been holding back from buying a PS3 because of price now have the affordable option they can afford. If PS2 games were so vital to these people, they would buy a PS2 for £70 this Xmas instead!!! People want PS3 games on the PS3 - just go back over the weeks and read the posts on this site. The main cause for arguments have been price and lack of PS3 games. During the wait for PS3 games, it’s been suggested by people to carry on playing PS2 games but the cries have been coming back demanding PS3 games and not PS2 games, so clearly B/C isn’t as important as you all think.
Anyway if PS2 B/C IS that important, buy the vastly reduced in price 60GB version. Not only do you get the ability to play your beloved PS2 games, but you’ll get 2 FREE PS3 games as well!
People that buy the 40GB version are surely going to buy a PS3 game when they buy the console so they’re already looking (in high street stores) at £339. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that you get the higher spec version with another game for an extra tenner.
I can’t believe the whining on this site. Those that don’t have the PS3 already - you got what you asked for so be happy. And be happy that they’ll now be more PS3 in homes after Xmas and publishers will see this and then more exclusives will start hitting the shelves too in the near future.
Well done Sony for listening and responding to consumer demand.
Comment by Dave Vincent — Oct 9, 2007 @ 9:17 am
An ideal opportunity to bring out a 30 quid PS2 module for the PS3 which sits underneath and shares video/audio outputs…
I supposed it won’t be long before we see pictures on the internet of someone glueing their PS2 slims to the side of a vertical PS3….
Comment by Mick — Oct 9, 2007 @ 9:37 am
What about the people/families who have to sell or trade in their PS2 to afford a PS3?
Will the firmware updates still include backwards compatible updates on them or will they not bother?
Do they just want to resell us our PS2 titles on the PSN? Is that what they are up to?
Do they realise originality is totally dead and don’t want you to play your PS2 games as you will quickly realise that PS3 games are just the same as the PS2 games but a little better looking in some cases?
WHY DIDN’T YOU ASK MAGUIRE SOME DECENT QUESTION LIKE THE ONES YOUR CUSTOMERS FIRE AT YOU EVERYDAY?
Comment by Ton Capone — Oct 9, 2007 @ 9:54 am
If backwards compatibility really isn’t important any more, why is it that PS1 compatibility remains?
Comment by Ian — Oct 9, 2007 @ 9:55 am
@ Mace - PS2 emulation is not software only, there is still part of the PS2 hardware included in the PS3. The only thing replaced by software is the Emotion Engine. Also I don’t know how true this is, but I read on another news site reporting this that Sony have to pay licence fees on the emulation software. In addition they were also focussing resource on building the back catalogue of PS2 games compatible with the PS3. So added together it could be quite a significant cost saving…
The PS3 hardware is obviously a radical departure from previous generations of PlayStation, maybe more so than Sony anticipated. I personally think we will never see PS2 compatibility again as it appears to be too complex to emulate entirely in software, although if they continue using the Cell in the PS4 I would expect to see PS3 b/c with that, I don’t think Sony have abandoned the notion completely.
At the end of the day everyone with PS2 games has a PS2, it is not something you’re going to use regularly so I really don’t see the problem with getting out your PS2 when you need it, or leave it next to the PS3 if you have the slim model. In 6 months time I’ll be amazed if the complainers above are still playing PS2 games…
In terms of Sony’s vision of this being a console for your living room under your HDTV, they obviously expect the PS2 to become a “bedroom” console. Most people have more than one TV, and the PS2 doesn’t really benefit from being hooked up to your main HDTV. They’ve already said the PS2 is aimed at the Wii market so it makes sense - you get a blu-ray playing media server games console in the living room, and the kids (or yourself) get a PS2 game playing DVD player in your bedroom!
I really think this is a storm in tea cup, it is no where near as detrimental to the PS3 as the Red Rings were to the 360 - and look how that blew over after a couple of weeks.
I also disagree that the average “mum” would walk into a games shop with the expectation that a PS3 plays PS2 games. If I asked my parents what a PS3 plays they would say PS3 games, they wouldn’t say “PlayStation is a brand and should be compatible with every PlayStation branded product”! I’m surprised you guys aren’t complaining that there is no UMD compatibility!!
At the end of the day the 40GB model is still very good value for what you get. The people that feel most passionate about B/C are the people that will rush out and buy the (bargain) 60GB PS3 before Christmas. And I still believe a “premium” model will resurface sometime in 2008 (probably when Sony launch their own movie/tv download service).
@ Mick - I really like that idea, it covers Sony’s costs and gives people the option to add it if they wanted, maybe some sort of USB adaptor like PlayTV, it could even have the old style controller and memory card slots on it!
What is more likely however is for Sony to release “compilation” discs that contain 5 or 6 bestselling PS2 games that have been fully converted and upscaled to PS3 format and can fit on single Blu-ray.
Comment by Apnomis — Oct 9, 2007 @ 10:25 am
@ Ian - Because the PS1 is a much simpler machine that is able to be emulated entirely by software, the PS2 is more complex and cannot be emulated without additional hardware and additional resource to tweak the emulation for each incompatible title.
As I’ve said above, I don’t think they’ve given up on b/c, it’s just uneconomical to do it for the PS2. If the PS4 shares a similar architecture to the PS3, there’s no reason to believe they wouldn’t make PS3 titles b/c with it.
@ Ton Capone - there will be no more updates to PS2 compatibility, they’ve already said part of the decision to remove it was to allow them to reallocate resource on new PS3 projects, not trying to tweak PS2 compatibility.
Comment by Apnomis — Oct 9, 2007 @ 10:35 am
What still gets me though is why not just leave it in, or allow it to be downloaded at a later date “As Is” - as it’s software emulation - even if the 40GB version hasn’t got it for retail, and sony themselves have “quit” supporting it.
Sony could easily “not support” it anymore and focus its resources on further PS3 projects and forget all about BC - but they could at least take the work they “HAVE” already done - and bung that into the console. It may not be 100% backwards compatibility, but it is better than nothing….
Comment by JohnSketch — Oct 9, 2007 @ 10:53 am
About PS1 Emulation staying in the PS3.
Sony are not stupid, they see a huge cash cow for people buying PS1 Titles on PSN, that’s why it’s still in. They are going to make a ton of cash on that crap and people will pay for it.
It’s total bollocks to say it’s still in because PS1 is easier to emulate. It’s a smart move to take PS2 out as they still sell PS2 consoles and will boost revenue even further on that platform.
Sony is doing what’s best for themselves, and not for the consumer.
Comment by anthonyp — Oct 9, 2007 @ 11:26 am
@51 … strange that the only thing I’m playing on my ps3 at the mo is tempest x3 via back compat…. ok thats a ps1 game..
but am sure theres a fair amount of people that still go back and play ps2 games. heck I brought god of war 2 last week for it which I’ve yet to play through!
so implying that as soon as you upgrade to a ps3.. you throw out all your ps2 games is crazy
Comment by the amazing kazoo — Oct 9, 2007 @ 11:30 am
Sony have obviously seen a market for PS1 titles - on both PSP and PS3, and have invested the time and money to get it working.
What I don’t get is why they don’t continue improving the PS2 emulater, surely the same market exists, even more so as PS2 games are still being produced. And once the emulator is done, the games can be loaded onto PSN and people can download at will - a fairly stable income for the foreseeable future.
And for new purchasers… 65 games only or 65 games plus a huge back catalogue including any that you already own seems a no-brainer.
Yes there is a big investment up front, but once the emulator is done - it’s done.
Comment by Ian — Oct 9, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Why can’t people understand that the emulator ISN’T done! It still needs chips in the hardware, and that costs money! Maybe one day there will be a software only solution that can be downloaded in a firmware update…
Consumers can’t complain that it costs to much to produce and then complain when Sony cut costs in order to reduce the price. You can’t have it all ways!
Hell, I don’t think some people will be happy until Sony start selling gold-plated ones compatible with every format ever released with a 500GB HDD and 32 usb ports, for under a fiver!!!
Sony did listen to the consumer - the consumer wanted a lower cost console, and the majority didn’t want or use b/c a year after the consoles release. Just because the vocal minority of b/c obsessives are posting about it here doesn’t mean Sony have made the wrong decision in the long run.
@ anthonyp - you have completely mis-understood the purpose of the PSN titles. These are not carbon copies of PS1 games, these have been specially adapted to work on the PS3 AND PSP. The main purpose of these downloads is the ability to copy them to a memory stick and play them on your PSP. The face they’ve bothered to make them PS3 compatible as well is a bonus. These titles have already been recoded to work with the PS3/PSP, the fact PS1 discs work with the PS3 is irrelevant (proved by the fact the download versions of Medievil and Crash 2 don’t work, but the disc versions do).
Comment by Apnomis — Oct 9, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
This discussion is getting rather tedious. What is clear is Sony is trying to adjust their products to address the needs of the marketplace. This 40GB system is an attempt to do so, and I do believe Sony when they say they have done a lot of market research to determine the ’sweet spot’ in the market. If BC turns out to be a bigger issue than they currently believe then I am sure a new premium model will be launched next year.
In the meantime I suggest people recommend to any friends they have to wants/needs BC to either run out and by a 60GB system before Christmas or buy a used system after Christmas.
I also don’t understand the continued complaints about lack of games. Sure 65 games isn’t a lot if that was the total ever, but it is not meant to be the total ever its just the total before Christmas this year. Which is 2,5 Month away.
And at least at this point we have good games in every category available:
Sports:
FIFA 08 is out and PES is coming out shortly. Most major US sports also have games out already. Good golf and tennis games are also available.
Driving:
DirT, Sega Rally and PS3 exclusive Motorstorm available and all good, and of course the free GT game from PSN is still enjoyable.
RPG:
Oblivion and Enchanted arms out. Probably the category which has the slimmest pickings atm. But PS3 exclusives Final Fantasy and White Knight coming out next year.
FPS:
PS3 exclusive Resistance, PS3 exclusive Warhawk, CoD3 already out. PS3 exclusive Haze coming out next Month. Still a slim chance Ps3 timed exclusive UT3 will also be out before Christmas.
Beat’em-up:
Tekken DR online and MK available. While both good and enjoyable this is another category where I guess no new major titles are planned before next year.
Platform and Adventure:
PS3 exclusive Uncharted Drake’s fortune coming out before Christmas. (Not sure this is really a separate category or a subcategory of single player FPS). I guess games like the Darkness and Stronghold also goes in this category. PS3 exclusive Ratchet and Clank coming out soon. Marvel ultimate alliance also available, although not worth playing unless you are an old comic book fan like myself IMHO.
Music games:
PS3 exclusive Singstar, Guitar Hero 3 both coming out before Christmas. (although I seem to remember some mention that GH3 might be delayed in Europe due to issues with song rights.)
Other:
Collectible PS3 exclusive card game Eye of Judgement coming out before Christmas. Many weird/funny games in PSN available like Super Rub’a'duck, Calling all cars and LocoRoco.
So my point is that someone buying a PS3 in November/December should have no problem finding a 2-3 games to play in the time remaining before the heavy hitters come out early next year. Of course if you are a gameaholic and need a new game every Monday then you will have to pick a few not so nice games at least.
Also if anyone wondered why I mentioned PS3 exclusive in front of so many of the games it was simply to counter the inevitable argument that there are ‘no exclusives’ available. The thing is that there are a lot of exclusives available, but of course not all of them might be games in your category of choice.
So can people here please stop the endless complaints and instead realize that if you look at the release plans of the major game companies there number of games coming out for the PS3 will be very good going forward and a lot of the games coming out will be PS3 exclusives. And if one evening don’t feel like playing any of the games available, why not rent a Blu-ray movie instead?
Comment by Christian — Oct 9, 2007 @ 12:47 pm
As allways Sony piss on European users face
That’s incredible.
Comment by Roger — Oct 9, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
threespeech
I’m a firm believer in democracy, but is there anything you/we can do to stop the mindless drivel posted on EVERY topic. Case in point being @59.
How is this great news linked to Sony pissing on Europeans?
…what, by offering a more affordable version of an awesome console? By reducing the price of the 60GB too.
It’s getting a real chore to read through some of these posts!
Hail the educated posters: Christian/The ‘Real’ carl/JohnSketch etc, etc…
Comment by mrsatansdojo — Oct 9, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
@ mrsatansdojo don’t forget Apnomis
But guys come on, they aren’t removing b/c completely, just on the cheaper model and that is because it ISN’T software entirely, it still needs some hardware, and a team of coders to try and convert old ps2 games to work on the ps3. And if you honestly belive that once they sell out of the 60gb ones they won’t release a premium model next year with some changes somewhere at either £350 or, more likely £425 again, then you probably don’t deserve to be posting on this topic at all.
Comment by Tom — Oct 9, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
Sony EU stinks. Terrible effort. At least communicate with your customers. What’s coming out this week (if anything) ??? Oh, you won’t tell us until it’s on there.
weak.
Comment by narked — Oct 9, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
@narked: no need to complain about PSN or the Shop. Sony is looking for someone to work on it: http://www.scee.com/about/jobs.jhtml;jsessionid=2L0FUB4K0KGJCCQSBLWCELQKCIFOYGUG#PSN%20Shop%20Assistant
So apply for the job and fix the problems
Comment by Christian — Oct 9, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
I personally look forward to pirating whole PS2 games onto the hard-drive using unofficial software emulation.
It’ll be nice picking up those games I missed the first time around without having to give this company a piece of the pie.
Comment by warmwaterpenguin — Oct 9, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
I have no idea what that some people are saying about ps1 games on PSN are specially redone.. £!$!£$ to that.. have you seen a custom firmware psp.. you can lob any old ps1 iso onto it and play it.. personally i think it’s sony just being plain lazy. M$ had the decency to have a go at a FULL SOFTWARE emulator and have by all accounts done a fair job at it. it plays all the top titles and there working on all the exclusives as well .. e.g.jet set radio etc.. which are still good fun today
what sony should be doing/done is recruit a small team at launch to do the software emulator and then pull the plug on including the hardware when it’s half decent. but sony in there cack handed way they have been since the psp launch have ballsed it up again.e.g. blowing wads of cash on pohy blogs that tried to make out they were cool.. do’h! if I were the ceo of sony. I would be more worried about the PS3 affecting the sony brand as a whole now and not just the PS3. being I will think twice now about getting a sony TV, laptop as this is showing up how inept they are at the moment. sony used to stand for cutting edge, the best hifi, speakers what ever you would go for.. A no brainer purchase.. something if you said to your mate you had brough.. they wouldn’t diss it as it’s a sony…. the PS3 has blown my idea of that now out of the water for good.
Comment by the amazing kazoo — Oct 9, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
Ray, I am not happy:
1. I paid full price on day with no games or controller so thats (£39 + £39 + £76) missed out on.
2. I didn’t have the choice of a cheaper 20GB PS3
3. I paid far more than customers in the US or Japan
Comment by mj — Oct 9, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
Seems to me like this is the best move they could make out of a long list of moves that all have a downside. They system in all territories are too expensive and BC seems like an option that can go in most case. If you don’t have a PSTwo then buy one…they’re cheap. If you already have one then why complain?
The system needs to come down in price or even having PS3 games will be a battle because the system won’t have the numbers to support development. This is a sink or swim decision and Sony UK is choosing to swim. And, it appears all the territories are choosing to swim in the same way with less expensive hardware and that I applaud.
Comment by MonkeyKing — Oct 9, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
in reponse to no. 59. What a total looser.
in response to no.65 :-
Do you read hardware reviews ?
sony do make the best TV, Check this months what hi-fi, hi-fi’s and laptps.
Sony has never been inept. ignorant occasionallly but never inept
They always said they had bigger plans for PS3 but people are so impatient.
They may have released the hardware early but at least they tested it first. I know i am on my 3rd other console !!!
PS3 is a stunning piece of hardware, Its more advanced than any console on the market.
The only people that dis the ps3 and sony like you do are xbotfanboys.
Seem to remember the argument was that you never had a choice when you bought ps3, well now they do and guess what there still moaning. PS3 is now the cheapest most advance console on the market period. 360 may seem cheaper but try adding wi-fi + hd-dvd playback and come back with the price.
The other fact to mention is that most people still own there ps2’s and can play there ps2 games on that, so why they even bothered to emulate it in the first place is beyong me. how many people ever played there ps1 games on there ps2 ? after maybe the first 6 months ?.
anyway to all who dis blah blah blah your so last gen, infact i am 35 and have been hearing the same repeated agruments for 25 of them years, just diffrent names in the game now to back then. Back then it was atari who were shafting us for the vcs and its why i was bought a videopac instead sigh !!! lol
to all new PS3 owners, Welcome to the party folks, were just about at the brow of the roller coaster so hold on tight and enjoy the ride……………………..
Comment by Oebstah — Oct 9, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
i think this price reduction is a great move. so what about backwards compatability, i’ve had my ps3 since lauch and barely used it and i still have my ps2 anyway, like most of us will! nearly everyone already has a ps2 and i find it hard to imagine they would bother flog it off for little or no money. it will probly serve as a nice dvd player in some other room in the house. the normal/average person will be looking for a ps3 to play ps3 games/blu-ray/media/internet so these changes will never effect them. besides theres some great games out now with more coming and this is the perfect time to set a realistic price range before the holidays. As for the whingers, its a fact consoles are most expensive at lauch and then their price falls over time, so get over it! you all had the pleasure, excitement & fun of getting your hands on one before most people do!! Im having a great time with my ps3 and it keeps getting better theres plently of demo’s and media free on the ps network with more being added all the time and regular system updates, the ps3’s future is looking good. bring on gran turismo 5 prologue, metal gear solid 4, little big planet and home!
Comment by mark — Oct 10, 2007 @ 2:44 am
I agree that dropping the price should have been their #1 priority, but they should not have done that at the expense of removing backwards compatibility.
How much money can they really be saving by removing that? I think the perceived loss in value by removing this feature will outweigh the price drop.
The Wii has backwards compatibility, the Xbox 360 has some backwards compatibility, and the PS3 will have none. What’s worse is that there still have a few good titles coming to the PS2 that are not available to the PS3. With backwards compatibility, Sony could have potentially earned more revenue from PS3 owners.
I also think that this may also sway some price conscious consumers to buy a PS2 instead of a PS3.
Comment by ScorpioN912 — Oct 10, 2007 @ 3:10 am
Big mistake, I am one of those early adopters that paid through my teeth.
I do feel some what miffed with all these new SKU’s been released for near enough the same cost with 2 controllers and 2 games, yet all I got was 1 controller and PS3 itself.
Thats the price for early adopters but you have to ask yourself this, first of all Europe was already paying more for the console tht JP/US counterparts packs like this should have been sold from the start.
Also loosing BC is a very very bad mistake, do you think parents are going to check the small print of the box when they are buying a PS3 for there children at xmas?
PS2 has huge install base and most people moving from PS2 will have a large collection of PS2 games.
Silly Mistake to add to the growing list now Sony.
Comment by AliC — Oct 10, 2007 @ 10:04 am
@71 I too am a early adopter and relise that there is a price to pay for that and that im very happy i did buy one early prehaps you should of just waited til now to buy then you might of been a little less miffed about it also b/c i have a ps2 to play ps2 games on if i want to and im guessing most people that have ps2 games have a ps2 to play them on. aswell having b/c on the ps3 wasnt a priority for and still isnt!!!!!! I belive we have a kick arse piece of kit which is well worth the £425 i paid for it in march !!!!
Comment by Nick — Oct 10, 2007 @ 10:42 am
I only have ONE question!
WHAT ABOUT THE CONSUMER WHO BROUGHT A PS3 AT RELEASE-DAY ( 23.03.2007 ) IN GERMANY ???
It’s very hard to see, that after about 6,5 / 7 months the prize drops rapidly.
does SONY have something to say to the release-day-consumer?
something like …”yeah, you’re one of the first consumer of the PS3, .. as a free gift you get a game from our studios…” or something else … dualshock3 for free or so …
@threespreach:
thanks 4 the interview, good work, good infos
Comment by SonyWanze™ — Oct 10, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
@73
You had the choice, to buy or not to buy on release day so what on earth is your problem. I also chose to buy march 23rd and welcome the price drop as it means more ps3 owners which is good, right?
The PS3 was too expensive for the masses in the beginning and now it isn’t Hooray
I’m so sick of the moaners on these forums, just enjoy what you’ve purchased, you made the right choice.
Comment by ImSoSickOfWhingers — Oct 10, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
Presumably this means that Sony have been losing so much money on the PS3, & interest has finally started to drop on the PS2 (the current saviour of the Sony Computer Entertainment division) that Sony felt the need to reinvigurate sales of the PS2 by ripping out BC completely from the new cost cutting PS3. It’ll be interesting to see how many 40Gb PS3s are returned after Christmas having been bought on the back of Sony’s initial promises & publicity (I very much doubt that there will be much publicity from Sony regarding the missing features - particularly in store). Surely for price conscious consumers, BC is of more importance than for the early adopters (early adopters presumably have more available & disposable money than those more conscious of the £425 launch price & are therefore able to buy more PS3 games, whereas cost conscious consumers loyal to the PlayStation brand are more likely to be selling an existing console to fund the purchase and therefore more likely to have a library of older games built up over the life of the PS2. Removal of BC would appear to be a major setback for potential users in this category…
Comment by Gothic — Oct 10, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
So can anyone tell me why I should be excited about the new SKU when the Japanese 40Gb [ie the same specced] model is a whopping £133 cheaper than the price we are being asked to pay?
You could buy two 40 Gb PS3s in Japan for less than the cost of a UK 40Gb PS3 and a game.
Unacceptable. Simply unacceptable.
Comment by Lorenzo — Oct 10, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
I agree with joystiq:-
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/08/rumor-40gb-ps3-releases-in-us-on-nov-2-same-issues-as-euro/
“By turning the PS3 into a PS3-only gaming machine, they have re-launched the PS3 with almost no draw for those people. It’s no longer an “upgrade” or a “replacement” for the PS2, giving them pride in their brand loyalty, it’s a brand new machine that stands alone and doesn’t replace anything at all.”
If they had launched the original 60GB with 99% hardware compatibility, the current owners wouldn’t feel abandoned when the B.C. updates dry up. I really hope they keep selling both models as otherwise I’ll be worried if mine is ever replaced.
Comment by rogerb — Oct 10, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
@74
Here is the problem:
1. Sony charged us far more than the US and Japan
2. We didn’t get a choice of the 20GB version
3. We were assured that there wouldn’t be a price cut
4. Almost every game was then delayed leaving a very expensive decoration under our tvs
5. We are out by two games and £76
And you call supporting Sony the right choice?
Comment by gobucks — Oct 11, 2007 @ 1:20 am
@68
Do you read hardware reviews ?
sony do make the best TV, Check this months what hi-fi, hi-fi’s and laptps.
Sony has never been inept. ignorant occasionallly but never inept
They always said they had bigger plans for PS3 but people are so impatient.
They may have released the hardware early but at least they tested it first. I know i am on my 3rd other console !!!
PS3 is a stunning piece of hardware, Its more advanced than any console on the market.
The only people that dis the ps3 and sony like you do are xbotfanboys.
—-
I stopped reading there… 1.. I do.. and there there bravia tv’s are ok.. not stella… but they still do good home media stuff… 2.. yes they have.. them with the whole ATAC mp3 walkman thing which they had to back down on.. unless your blinkered to anything sony has cocked up etc.. but they have done some great stuff as well.. 3. impatient! …xbox fanboy… mannnn I wish. i wish sega came back! am also on a second 360..and the 360 has it’s faults..quite a few. if anything but no where near as annoying as the 360.. the 20 360 games to my 3 ps3 games sort of prove that! how the hell you can say they tested it is beyond me. yes the hardware is sound.. e.g. low fault rate. but software wise it was broken from launch.. for gods sake it needed a firmware upgrade in the first week to fix bugs. then god knows how many more in the first 6 months. and the hardware isn’t that amazingly advanced to the 360. remember it was a year late. the GPU memory bandwidth flaws aside. the ps3 isn’t that more noticably powerful over the 360. and from what I know.. dev houses that program for the ps3 normal have the sound of the F bomb most of the time in the air! saturn esq. way.
I’m just £$!£$ off that I feel I’ve been ripped off for the past 6 mnts on a console with failed promises and now to rub insult into wounds … manic price cuts even thou the software line up is virtually the same as 7mnts ago!. if I knew the state of the ps3 now 7mnts ago. you would have had to kill me to get the £400+ quid i paid for it off me. i would be happier if they did a peter moore and some one there just put a hand up and said we have screwed up instead of these increasing idotic press releases and rebranding of the hardware specs every 4 weeks while shouting out nothing to see here on the state of the software side. and I don’t care such and such is out next year… i feel there should be some AAA titles now on it! after a year on from the japan launch.. thats not much to ask is it
Comment by The Amazing Kazoo — Oct 11, 2007 @ 1:41 am
It’s a good move. It’s now affordable by a larger proportion of the market - yet those with enough money to still buy games. Where the real money is of course.
Price has always been the #1 whinge about the PS3 - even for those who claimed it was software. It’s not even a year old yet, software takes time to make, and although there have been some duds, it’s the same on every platform.
Comment by MPZ — Oct 11, 2007 @ 9:17 am
I think this article from GamesIndustry.biz really sums it all up rather nicely:
“There is something inherently depressing about the fact that, two years on from the first hardware launch of a new generation of consoles, we’re still talking about backwards compatibility - a topic that has somehow managed to continue being a hot potato, and for all the wrong reasons.
This week, it’s Sony’s turn to wind up the backwards compatibility toy and send it rolling across the room, beating a tiny drum and tripping up anyone unfortunate enough to walk through its path.
After disappointing consumers by reneging on their promise of totally reliable backwards compatibility on the PS3, the firm had seemingly pulled a minor victory from the jaws of self-constructed defeat by providing software BC in its European models which was actually, really, rather good.
Now, however, the company has decided that after spending months convincing us all that software backwards compatibility was genuinely good enough to satisfy the vast majority of consumers, what we’ve really wanted all along is no backwards compatibility at all.
The announcement of an entry-level 40GB PS3 model should have been a resoundingly positive one - especially as it came, in Europe at least, alongside a significant price cut for the high-end 60GB version. The bundle now being offered at GBP 350 - a 60GB console, one controller and two games - is rather good value, not an accusation that’s often been leveled at the PS3.
The 40GB model, we were less convinced of from the outset. We don’t know exactly how well the Xbox 360 Core has fared since its introduction, but we do know that at launch, many of the consumers who bought Core systems only did so because they couldn’t get their hands on the more complete bundle. In the United States, the previous low-end PS3 model (which had 20GB of capacity) sold so badly that it simply disappeared quietly shortly after launch.
In light of this, it’s hard to see why Sony thinks yet another low-end SKU will help the PS3 in the marketplace this Christmas. However, on the face of it, more choice can’t be a bad thing - and coming alongside the announcement of a genuine price drop for the full-fat version of the console, this should have been a glowingly positive announcement all over.
This does not, however, account for Sony’s uncanny recent ability to deliver an entire storm system’s worth of clouds for every silver lining they dish out. Two pieces of information have left a seriously bad taste in the mouths of media and consumers alike in the wake of this announcement.
Firstly, there is the utterly peculiar announcement that the 60GB model is being discontinued in Europe - with no new stock to be brought in once existing stock is depleted. It’s not as bad as it sounds; Sony claims that the existing stock will last through until Christmas. However, that fact in itself leaves us wondering why on Earth the company decided to share this information.
If the 60GB model is to be discontinued with no replacement, this is one of the most bizarre and, frankly, dumb decisions we can imagine. Unless Sony actively wishes to discourage core gamers from investing in its product, we simply can’t envisage any reason to take the high-end option off the market - and therefore we have to assume that the 60GB model will be discontinued so that it can be replaced, perhaps with an 80GB (becoming standard in other territories) or even 120GB model.
In which case, why tell people months in advance that the model is being discontinued? Why not wait until after Christmas, announce the new model, and enjoy a January sales spike when the new version hits the shops? The simple, and sadly rather cynical, answer is that Sony want people to be fooled into thinking that this is their last chance to pick up a “proper” PS3, to help drive sales ahead of Christmas.
We don’t have a problem with companies talking up their products. However, anyone who’s been following Sony’s trials and tribulations in the last year could have told them that playing tricks and word games on their consumers is pretty much the last thing that a company with a reputation for breaking its promises needs right now.
Secondly, and even more bizarrely, there is the unwarranted crippling of the 40GB model. This is where the backwards compatibility debate is re-ignited. Not content with simply knocking 20GB off the hard drive space, taking out two USB ports and removing the memory card slots, all of which are reasonable functionality reductions in a low-end model, Sony has also chosen to entirely remove backwards compatibility with PS2 games.
Any claim that this has been done for cost purposes is clearly false, because the European PS3 already emulated its predecessors in software. Some legacy chips remained on-board (but not the central processor, the Emotion Engine), but their cost is unlikely to have been much more than a dollar or two per unit - if even that.
No, the backwards compatibility has been removed not to save costs, but rather to create a distinction between the high-end and low-end models of the PS3. The absolutely staggering implication of this is that Sony now considers backwards compatibility to be a luxury feature - something consumers should be willing to pay additional money for, or which only high-end consumers will want.
Long-term readers will recall that we lambasted Microsoft over its farcical implementation of backwards compatibility in the Xbox 360, a problem whose eventual effect on the 360’s hardware sales is impossible to gauge - but whose hugely negative effect on long-tail sales of Xbox software can be seen in any media retailer in the western world.
On the PlayStation 3, backwards compatibility is even more important - and not just because we all chuckled at Sony’s assertion that it’s not needed because the company will have a whole sixty-three titles for the PS3 by this Christmas. It’s more important because the PS2 was a vastly popular system for which an enormous library of software exists - a library which continues to be expanded, and satisfies the gaming needs of a huge number of people.
The PS2’s ecosystem continues to be hugely important to the software industry as a whole, and the PS2’s library is still the biggest and best resource of gaming experiences for consumers. For Sony to treat compatibility with that library - and the support of that ecosystem - as a luxury feature in its new console is ludicrous, especially given the firm’s own regularly cited line about PlayStation being a platform, not just a brand.
The sad thing is that up until now, Sony practically had this aspect of the market in hand. Whatever about the quality or quantity of its software titles, or its pricing strategy, one thing that was regularly praised about the PS3 was its backwards compatibility - even on the European software-compatibility models. For users with HDTVs, the ability to upscale and smooth old games in higher resolutions is a huge boon - one owners of the new 40GB models will miss out on entirely.
More than anything else, this move simply confuses the market. Last week, asked about backwards compatibility, we could simply say that the PS3 does it very well. This week, the answer is “it does it sometimes, it depends what model you get”. We’re all for choice - but in this instance, Sony seems to have added a choice into its range that no consumer actually wants.”
Comment by Zed Zee — Oct 13, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
I’ve only read the first post in this topic but I’ve had to reply straight away.
Why does it matter if you remove backwards compatibility. If you have a load of PS2 games you have a PS2. Is it really worth ebaying your console for £40 like I did (I’ve got a 60Gb though) or will you just keep the PS2 for the odd moments you want to play the old games? I’ve only played San Andreas a handful of times since March and the rest of the time was Resistance and F1. When the new GTA is out, and MGS4 and the like there’ll be no going back!
Comment by Si — Oct 15, 2007 @ 1:35 am
Can anyone explain how removing BC lowered the cost, when BC on all PAL machines is software? They already removed the hardware in the sleight of hand a month or so before launch. As for 40Gb HDD, the way HDD prices go, there’s a point where the things don’t get noticeably cheaper, so I can only see a saving in the lack of card reader and 2 less USB ports, which are hardly show-stopping in price terms.
I don’t see how that adds up to over £100 less than I paid, material cost is about £30 at retail prices, plus development and testing…
I thought we were repeatedly told ‘no price cuts until 2008 at the earliest’?
If I’d known this was going to be pulled so soon after, I’d never have bought a launch machine.
Comment by Gomez — Oct 15, 2007 @ 12:46 pm
Removing software. Unfortunately what a lot of people have overlooked is that software isn’t free. Look how much a school has to pay for something as common as microsoft office - tens of thousands of pounds! Software has to be licenced and if they don’t use it in the PS3 they don’t have to pay the licencing fee. It’s actually that simple.
Comment by Si — Oct 15, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
83. They only removed the emotion engine chip, which renders the graphics, not the entire PS2 hardware. Removing the rest of the hardware and the reduction in licensing fees will save them a lot of money.
My view on this as a day 1 adopter
1) A price cut is good as it increases the install base, therefore increasing the number of games being developed. I’m not bothered as I knew what I was buying when I bought it, and knew the price would be cut.
2)Backwards compatibility would be nice, but hardly essential going forwards, anyone who really needs it can spend £50 more now, or £99 on a PS2, or wait till after Christmas for the new deluxe 80/120 model which is likely to be announced, which may well still have BC in it.
All in all a good deal for everyone
Comment by John — Oct 16, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
its a tough choice
- 20Gb and two games but more to save
or
- 40gb no backward compatability and cheaper console
Comment by sam woodhouse — Oct 26, 2007 @ 9:43 pm
why need backward compatability???
Just keep your old PS2 if u ever wanted to play old games.
Although with a PS3…..who would want to play old games???
Comment by sam woodhouse — Oct 26, 2007 @ 9:46 pm
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